WoW Forever

Forever vs Classic

Rogue changes in WoW Forever

Everything that changed for the Rogue since Classic. Spells first, then every talent next to its Classic version. The full tooltip is under each one.

9

new talents

31

changed

13

same effect (2 moved)

7

Classic talents gone

Jump to: spells · Assassination · Combat · Subtlety · removed talents

Spell changes

Each spell's top rank next to the same rank in Classic. 1 have lower numbers, 3 higher. Lower isn't always weaker: a shorter cooldown is a buff. Every rank by level →

New spells: Mutilate.

SpellForever vs Classic
Deadly PoisonRank 5some up, some down

ForeverCoats a weapon with poison that lasts for 30 minutes. Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy for 92 Nature damage over 12 sec. Stacks up to 5 times on a single target. 180 charges.

ClassicCoats a weapon with poison that lasts for 30 minutes. Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy for 136 Nature damage over 12 sec. Stacks up to 5 times on a single target. 120 charges.

Distractworks differently

ForeverThrows a distraction, attracting the attention of all nearby enemies and reducing their Stealth detection as if they were 1 level lower for 10 seconds. Does not break stealth.

ClassicThrows a distraction, attracting the attention of all nearby monsters for 10 seconds. Does not break stealth.

Expose ArmorRank 5numbers up

ForeverFinishing move that exposes the target for 30 sec, reducing Armor per combo point: 1 point : 450 Armor 2 points: 900 Armor 3 points: 1,350 Armor 4 points: 1,800 Armor 5 points: 2,250 Armor

ClassicFinishing move that exposes the target for 30 sec, reducing armor per combo point: 1 point : 340 armor 2 points: 680 armor 3 points: 1020 armor 4 points: 1360 armor 5 points: 1700 armor

GougeRank 5works differently

ForeverCauses 75 damage, stops your attack, and incapacitates the target for 4 sec. The target must be facing you. Any damage taken will break the effect. Awards 1 combo point.

ClassicCauses 75 damage, incapacitating the opponent for 4 sec, and turns off your attack. Target must be facing you. Any damage caused will revive the target. Awards 1 combo point.

Instant PoisonRank 6some up, some down

ForeverCoats a weapon with poison that lasts for 30 minutes. Each strike has a 20% chance of poisoning the enemy which instantly inflicts 76 to 100 Nature damage. 175 charges.

ClassicCoats a weapon with poison that lasts for 30 minutes. Each strike has a 20% chance of poisoning the enemy which instantly inflicts 112 to 148 Nature damage. 115 charges.

Mind-numbing PoisonRank 3numbers up

ForeverCoats a weapon with poison that lasts for 30 minutes. Each strike has a 20% chance of poisoning the enemy, increasing their casting time by 60% for 14 sec. 150 charges.

ClassicCoats a weapon with poison that lasts for 30 minutes. Each strike has a 20% chance of poisoning the enemy, increasing their casting time by 60% for 14 sec. 100 charges.

RuptureRank 6numbers down

ForeverFinishing move that causes damage over time, increased by your Attack Power. Lasts longer per combo point: 1 point : 159 damage over 8 secs 2 points: 222 damage over 10 secs 3 points: 295 damage over 12 secs 4 points: 377 damage over 14 secs 5 points: 469 damage over 16 secs

ClassicFinishing move that causes damage over time, increased by your Attack Power. Lasts longer per combo point: 1 point : 272 damage over 8 secs 2 points: 380 damage over 10 secs 3 points: 504 damage over 12 secs 4 points: 644 damage over 14 secs 5 points: 800 damage over 16 secs

SapRank 3works differently

ForeverIncapacitates the target for up to 45 sec. Only works on Humanoids that are not in combat. Any damage taken will break the effect. Only 1 target may be sapped at a time. Does not break Stealth.

ClassicIncapacitates the target for up to 45 sec. Must be stealthed. Only works on Humanoids that are not in combat. Any damage caused will revive the target. Only 1 target may be sapped at a time.

Wound PoisonRank 4numbers up

ForeverCoats a weapon with poison that lasts for 30 minutes. Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy, reducing all healing effects used on them by 165 for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times on a single target. 160 charges.

ClassicCoats a weapon with poison that lasts for 30 minutes. Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy, reducing all healing effects used on them by 135 for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times on a single target. 105 charges.

Assassination

17 talents · 2 new · 11 changed

Improved Gouge

changedrow 1 · 3 ranks

moved from Combat

Forever, rank 3Increases the duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 sec.

Classic, rank 3Increases the effect duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 sec.

Every rank
  1. Increases the duration of your Gouge ability by 0.5 sec.
  2. Increases the duration of your Gouge ability by 1 sec.
  3. Increases the duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 sec.

Remorseless Attacks

changedrow 1 · 2 ranks

text changed

Forever, rank 2After killing a non-trivial enemy, gives you a 40% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, Mutilate, or Ghostly Strike. Lasts 20 sec.

Classic, rank 2After killing an opponent that yields experience or honor, gives you a 40% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Ghostly Strike. Lasts 20 sec.

Every rank
  1. After killing a non-trivial enemy, gives you a 20% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, Mutilate, or Ghostly Strike. Lasts 20 sec.
  2. After killing a non-trivial enemy, gives you a 40% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, Mutilate, or Ghostly Strike. Lasts 20 sec.

Malice

changedrow 1 · 5 ranks

text changed

Forever, rank 5Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks and Poisons by 5%.

Classic, rank 5Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.

Every rank
  1. Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks and Poisons by 1%.
  2. Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks and Poisons by 2%.
  3. Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks and Poisons by 3%.
  4. Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks and Poisons by 4%.
  5. Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks and Poisons by 5%.

Ruthlessness

same as Classicrow 2 · 3 ranks

Forever, rank 3Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a Combo Point to your target.

Every rank
  1. Gives your finishing moves a 20% chance to add a Combo Point to your target.
  2. Gives your finishing moves a 40% chance to add a Combo Point to your target.
  3. Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a Combo Point to your target.

Murder

changedrow 2 · 2 ranks

numbers changed

Forever, rank 2Increases all damage dealt by 4% against Humanoid and Giant targets.

Classic, rank 2Increases all damage caused against Humanoid, Giant, Beast and Dragonkin targets by 2%.

Every rank
  1. Increases all damage dealt by 2% against Humanoid and Giant targets.
  2. Increases all damage dealt by 4% against Humanoid and Giant targets.

Improved Slice and Dice

same as Classicrow 2 · 3 ranks

Forever, rank 3Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 45%.

Every rank
  1. Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 15%.
  2. Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 30%.
  3. Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 45%.

Relentless Strikes

same as Classicrow 3 · 1 rank

ForeverYour finishing moves have a 20% chance per Combo Point to restore 25 Energy.

Improved Expose Armor

changedrow 3 · 2 ranks

numbers changed

Forever, rank 2Reduces the Energy cost of your Expose Armor ability by 10, and refunds 2 Combo Points when cast with 5 Combo Points.

Classic, rank 2Increases the armor reduced by your Expose Armor ability by 50%.

Every rank
  1. Reduces the Energy cost of your Expose Armor ability by 5, and refunds 1 Combo Point when cast with 5 Combo Points.
  2. Reduces the Energy cost of your Expose Armor ability by 10, and refunds 2 Combo Points when cast with 5 Combo Points.

Lethality

changedrow 3 · 5 ranks

numbers changed

Forever, rank 5Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Mutilate, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 20%.

Classic, rank 5Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.

Every rank
  1. Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Mutilate, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 4%.
  2. Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Mutilate, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 8%.
  3. Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Mutilate, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 12%.
  4. Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Mutilate, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 16%.
  5. Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Mutilate, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 20%.

Vile Poisons

movedrow 4 · 5 ranks

moved from row 4

Forever, rank 5Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 20% and gives your poisons an additional 40% chance to resist dispel effects.

Every rank
  1. Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 4% and gives your poisons an additional 8% chance to resist dispel effects.
  2. Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 8% and gives your poisons an additional 16% chance to resist dispel effects.
  3. Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 12% and gives your poisons an additional 24% chance to resist dispel effects.
  4. Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 16% and gives your poisons an additional 32% chance to resist dispel effects.
  5. Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 20% and gives your poisons an additional 40% chance to resist dispel effects.

Cold Blood

changedrow 4 · 1 rank

moved from row 5

ForeverWhen activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, Eviscerate, or Mutilate by 100%.

ClassicWhen activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.

Improved Poisons

changedrow 4 · 5 ranks

numbers changed

Forever, rank 5Increases the chance to apply Poisons to your target by 10%, and gives Poison applications a 50% chance to not consume a charge.

Classic, rank 5Increases the chance to apply poisons to your target by 10%.

Every rank
  1. Increases the chance to apply Poisons to your target by 2%, and gives Poison applications a 10% chance to not consume a charge.
  2. Increases the chance to apply Poisons to your target by 4%, and gives Poison applications a 20% chance to not consume a charge.
  3. Increases the chance to apply Poisons to your target by 6%, and gives Poison applications a 30% chance to not consume a charge.
  4. Increases the chance to apply Poisons to your target by 8%, and gives Poison applications a 40% chance to not consume a charge.
  5. Increases the chance to apply Poisons to your target by 10%, and gives Poison applications a 50% chance to not consume a charge.

Vigor

changedrow 5 · 2 ranks

1 → 2 ranks · moved from row 7

Forever, rank 2Increases your maximum Energy by 10.

ClassicIncreases your maximum Energy by 10.

Every rank
  1. Increases your maximum Energy by 5.
  2. Increases your maximum Energy by 10.

Mutilate

newrow 5 · 1 rank

New in Forever.

ForeverInstantly attacks with both weapons for 75% weapon damage plus an additional 13 with each weapon. Damage increased by 20% against Poisoned targets. Awards 2 Combo Points.

Improved Kidney Shot

changedrow 5 · 2 ranks

3 → 2 ranks · numbers changed

Forever, rank 2Enemies Stunned by your Kidney Shot ability take 10% increased damage from your poisons and attacks.

Classic, rank 3While affected by your Kidney Shot ability, the target receives an additional 9% damage from all sources.

Every rank
  1. Enemies Stunned by your Kidney Shot ability take 5% increased damage from your poisons and attacks.
  2. Enemies Stunned by your Kidney Shot ability take 10% increased damage from your poisons and attacks.

Seal Fate

changedrow 6 · 5 ranks

moved from row 6 · no longer requires Cold Blood

Forever, rank 5Your critical strikes from abilities that add Combo Points have a 100% chance to add an additional Combo Point.

Classic, rank 5Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.

Every rank
  1. Your critical strikes from abilities that add Combo Points have a 20% chance to add an additional Combo Point.
  2. Your critical strikes from abilities that add Combo Points have a 40% chance to add an additional Combo Point.
  3. Your critical strikes from abilities that add Combo Points have a 60% chance to add an additional Combo Point.
  4. Your critical strikes from abilities that add Combo Points have a 80% chance to add an additional Combo Point.
  5. Your critical strikes from abilities that add Combo Points have a 100% chance to add an additional Combo Point.

Venom

newrow 7 · 1 rank

New in Forever.

ForeverFinishing move that increases the damage of your Poisons by 30% and your chance to apply Poisons by 10%. Lasts longer per combo point: 1 point : 9 sec 2 points: 12 sec 3 points: 15 sec 4 points: 18 sec 5 points: 21 sec

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Combat

17 talents · 2 new · 9 changed

Improved Eviscerate

changedrow 1 · 3 ranks

moved from Assassination · numbers changed

Forever, rank 3Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 20%.

Classic, rank 3Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.

Every rank
  1. Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 7%.
  2. Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 13%.
  3. Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 20%.

Improved Sinister Strike

same as Classicrow 1 · 2 ranks

Forever, rank 2Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5.

Every rank
  1. Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 3.
  2. Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5.

Lightning Reflexes

same as Classicrow 1 · 5 ranks

Forever, rank 5Increases your Dodge chance by 5%.

Every rank
  1. Increases your Dodge chance by 1%.
  2. Increases your Dodge chance by 2%.
  3. Increases your Dodge chance by 3%.
  4. Increases your Dodge chance by 4%.
  5. Increases your Dodge chance by 5%.

Puncturing Wounds

newrow 2 · 3 ranks

New in Forever.

Forever, rank 3Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab by 30% and your Mutilate by 15%, and gives Backstab a 45% chance to add an additional Combo Point.

Every rank
  1. Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab by 10% and your Mutilate by 5%, and gives Backstab a 15% chance to add an additional Combo Point.
  2. Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab by 20% and your Mutilate by 10%, and gives Backstab a 30% chance to add an additional Combo Point.
  3. Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab by 30% and your Mutilate by 15%, and gives Backstab a 45% chance to add an additional Combo Point.

Deflection

changedrow 2 · 3 ranks

5 → 3 ranks · numbers changed

Forever, rank 3Increases your Parry chance by 6%.

Classic, rank 5Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

Every rank
  1. Increases your Parry chance by 2%.
  2. Increases your Parry chance by 4%.
  3. Increases your Parry chance by 6%.

Precision

changedrow 2 · 3 ranks

5 → 3 ranks · numbers changed

Forever, rank 3Improves your chance to hit by 3%.

Classic, rank 5Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.

Every rank
  1. Improves your chance to hit by 1%.
  2. Improves your chance to hit by 2%.
  3. Improves your chance to hit by 3%.

Endurance

changedrow 3 · 2 ranks

numbers changed

Forever, rank 2Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 60%.

Classic, rank 2Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 1.5 min.

Every rank
  1. Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 30%.
  2. Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 60%.

Riposte

same as Classicrow 3 · 1 rank

ForeverA strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent's attack. This attack deals 150% weapon damage and disarms the target for 6 sec.

Improved Sprint

same as Classicrow 3 · 2 ranks

Forever, rank 2Gives a 100% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when you activate your Sprint ability.

Every rank
  1. Gives a 50% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when you activate your Sprint ability.
  2. Gives a 100% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when you activate your Sprint ability.

Improved Kick

same as Classicrow 4 · 2 ranks

Forever, rank 2Gives your Kick ability a 100% chance to Silence the target for 2 sec.

Every rank
  1. Gives your Kick ability a 50% chance to Silence the target for 2 sec.
  2. Gives your Kick ability a 100% chance to Silence the target for 2 sec.

Flawless Execution

newrow 4 · 1 rank

New in Forever.

ForeverReduces the Energy cost of your Eviscerate ability by 10.

Dual Wield Specialization

changedrow 4 · 5 ranks

numbers changed

Forever, rank 5Increases the damage done by your off-hand weapon by 25%.

Classic, rank 5Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%.

Every rank
  1. Increases the damage done by your off-hand weapon by 5%.
  2. Increases the damage done by your off-hand weapon by 10%.
  3. Increases the damage done by your off-hand weapon by 15%.
  4. Increases the damage done by your off-hand weapon by 20%.
  5. Increases the damage done by your off-hand weapon by 25%.

Blade Flurry

changedrow 5 · 1 rank

text changed

ForeverIncreases your melee attack speed by 20% and your melee attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 sec.

ClassicIncreases your attack speed by 20%. In addition, attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 sec.

Hack and Slash

changedrow 5 · 5 ranks

was Sword Specialization · numbers changed

Forever, rank 5Gives your melee weapon attacks a benefit depending on the weapon. Axe/Sword: Your successful melee attacks have a 5% chance to trigger an extra attack on the target. Dagger/Fist: Increases your critical strike chance by 5%. Mace: Your attacks ignore 15% of your target's armor.

Classic, rank 5Gives you a 5% chance to get an extra attack on the same target after dealing damage with your Sword.

Every rank
  1. Gives your melee weapon attacks a benefit depending on the weapon. Axe/Sword: Your successful melee attacks have a 1% chance to trigger an extra attack on the target. Dagger/Fist: Increases your critical strike chance by 1%. Mace: Your attacks ignore 3% of your target's armor.
  2. Gives your melee weapon attacks a benefit depending on the weapon. Axe/Sword: Your successful melee attacks have a 2% chance to trigger an extra attack on the target. Dagger/Fist: Increases your critical strike chance by 2%. Mace: Your attacks ignore 6% of your target's armor.
  3. Gives your melee weapon attacks a benefit depending on the weapon. Axe/Sword: Your successful melee attacks have a 3% chance to trigger an extra attack on the target. Dagger/Fist: Increases your critical strike chance by 3%. Mace: Your attacks ignore 9% of your target's armor.
  4. Gives your melee weapon attacks a benefit depending on the weapon. Axe/Sword: Your successful melee attacks have a 4% chance to trigger an extra attack on the target. Dagger/Fist: Increases your critical strike chance by 4%. Mace: Your attacks ignore 12% of your target's armor.
  5. Gives your melee weapon attacks a benefit depending on the weapon. Axe/Sword: Your successful melee attacks have a 5% chance to trigger an extra attack on the target. Dagger/Fist: Increases your critical strike chance by 5%. Mace: Your attacks ignore 15% of your target's armor.

Weapon Expertise

changedrow 6 · 2 ranks

numbers changed

Forever, rank 2Reduces the chance for your attacks to be Dodged or Parried by 2%.

Classic, rank 2Increases your skill with Sword, Fist and Dagger weapons by 5.

Every rank
  1. Reduces the chance for your attacks to be Dodged or Parried by 1%.
  2. Reduces the chance for your attacks to be Dodged or Parried by 2%.

Aggression

changedrow 6 · 3 ranks

text changed

Forever, rank 3Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike, Backstab, and Eviscerate abilities by 6%.

Classic, rank 3Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike and Eviscerate abilities by 6%.

Every rank
  1. Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike, Backstab, and Eviscerate abilities by 2%.
  2. Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike, Backstab, and Eviscerate abilities by 4%.
  3. Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike, Backstab, and Eviscerate abilities by 6%.

Adrenaline Rush

same as Classicrow 7 · 1 rank

ForeverIncreases your Energy regeneration rate by 100% for 15 sec.

Subtlety

19 talents · 5 new · 11 changed

Camouflage

changedrow 1 · 5 ranks

moved from row 2 · numbers changed

Forever, rank 5Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 15% and reduces its cooldown by 6 sec.

Classic, rank 5Increases your speed while stealthed by 15% and reduces the cooldown of your Stealth ability by 5 sec.

Every rank
  1. Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 3% and reduces its cooldown by 2 sec.
  2. Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 6% and reduces its cooldown by 3 sec.
  3. Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 9% and reduces its cooldown by 4 sec.
  4. Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 12% and reduces its cooldown by 5 sec.
  5. Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 15% and reduces its cooldown by 6 sec.

Master of Deception

changedrow 1 · 3 ranks

5 → 3 ranks · numbers changed

Forever, rank 3Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 3 levels higher.

Classic, rank 5Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4).

Every rank
  1. Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 1 level higher.
  2. Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 2 levels higher.
  3. Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 3 levels higher.

Opportunity

changedrow 1 · 2 ranks

5 → 2 ranks · numbers changed

Forever, rank 2Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 10%.

Classic, rank 5Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.

Every rank
  1. Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 5%.
  2. Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 10%.

Setup

changedrow 2 · 3 ranks

moved from row 4 · numbers changed

Forever, rank 3Gives you a 100% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging one of their attacks or fully resisting one of their spells.

Classic, rank 3Gives you a 45% chance to add a combo point to your target after dodging their attack or fully resisting one of their spells.

Every rank
  1. Gives you a 33% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging one of their attacks or fully resisting one of their spells.
  2. Gives you a 67% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging one of their attacks or fully resisting one of their spells.
  3. Gives you a 100% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging one of their attacks or fully resisting one of their spells.

Elusiveness

same as Classicrow 2 · 2 ranks

Forever, rank 2Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish and Blind abilities by 90 sec.

Every rank
  1. Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish and Blind abilities by 45 sec.
  2. Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish and Blind abilities by 90 sec.

Dirty Tricks

newrow 2 · 2 ranks

New in Forever.

Forever, rank 2Reduces the Energy cost of your Sap and Blind abilities by 50%.

Every rank
  1. Reduces the Energy cost of your Sap and Blind abilities by 25%.
  2. Reduces the Energy cost of your Sap and Blind abilities by 50%.

Improved Ambush

movedrow 2 · 3 ranks

moved from row 3

Forever, rank 3Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 45%.

Every rank
  1. Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 15%.
  2. Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 30%.
  3. Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 45%.

Initiative

changedrow 3 · 3 ranks

numbers changed

Forever, rank 3Gives you a 100% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.

Classic, rank 3Gives you a 75% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.

Every rank
  1. Gives you a 33% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
  2. Gives you a 67% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
  3. Gives you a 100% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.

Ghostly Strike

changedrow 3 · 1 rank

numbers changed

ForeverA strike that deals 125% (180% if a Dagger is equipped in your Main Hand) weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 sec. Awards 1 combo point.

ClassicA strike that deals 125% weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 sec. Awards 1 combo point.

Improved Distract

newrow 3 · 2 ranks

New in Forever.

Forever, rank 2Increases the radius of your Distract ability by 5 yds, and further reduces the Stealth detection of distracted enemies as though they were an additional 2 levels lower.

Every rank
  1. Increases the radius of your Distract ability by 3 yds, and further reduces the Stealth detection of distracted enemies as though they were an additional 1 level lower.
  2. Increases the radius of your Distract ability by 5 yds, and further reduces the Stealth detection of distracted enemies as though they were an additional 2 levels lower.

Heightened Senses

changedrow 4 · 2 ranks

moved from row 5 · numbers changed

Forever, rank 2Increases your Stealth detection as if you were 3 levels higher and reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 4%.

Classic, rank 2Increases your Stealth detection and reduces the chance you are hit by spells and ranged attacks by 4%. More effective than Heightened Senses (Rank 1).

Every rank
  1. Increases your Stealth detection as if you were 1 level higher and reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 2%.
  2. Increases your Stealth detection as if you were 3 levels higher and reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 4%.

Premeditation

changedrow 4 · 1 rank

moved from row 7 · numbers changed · no longer requires Preparation, no longer requires Stealth (Classic did)

ForeverAdds 2 Combo Points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 20 sec or the combo points are lost.

ClassicWhen used, adds 2 combo points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 10 sec or the combo points are lost.

Serrated Blades

changedrow 4 · 3 ranks

numbers changed

Forever, rank 3Causes your attacks to ignore 9% of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%.

Classic, rank 3Causes your attacks to ignore 0 of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%. The amount of Armor reduced increases with your level.

Every rank
  1. Causes your attacks to ignore 3% of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 10%.
  2. Causes your attacks to ignore 6% of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 20%.
  3. Causes your attacks to ignore 9% of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%.

Dirty Deeds

changedrow 5 · 2 ranks

moved from row 5

Forever, rank 2Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 20, and your Garrote ability no longer requires you to be behind your target.

Classic, rank 2Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 20.

Every rank
  1. Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 10, and your Garrote ability no longer requires you to be behind your target.
  2. Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 20, and your Garrote ability no longer requires you to be behind your target.

Preparation

same as Classicrow 5 · 1 rank

ForeverWhen activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.

Hemorrhage

changedrow 5 · 1 rank

moved from row 5 · numbers changed

ForeverAn instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a Dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 15% increased Rupture damage from the Rogue. Lasts 15 sec. Awards 1 Combo Point.

ClassicAn instant strike that damages the opponent and causes the target to hemorrhage, increasing any Physical damage dealt to the target by up to 3. Lasts 30 charges or 15 sec. Awards 1 combo point.

Quietus

newrow 6 · 5 ranks

New in Forever.

Forever, rank 5Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 10% more damage against targets below 35% health.

Every rank
  1. Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 2% more damage against targets below 35% health.
  2. Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 4% more damage against targets below 35% health.
  3. Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 6% more damage against targets below 35% health.
  4. Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 8% more damage against targets below 35% health.
  5. Your Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities cause 10% more damage against targets below 35% health.

Cutthroat

newrow 6 · 5 ranks

New in Forever.

Forever, rank 5Your Backstab has a 15% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.

Every rank
  1. Your Backstab has a 3% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.
  2. Your Backstab has a 6% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.
  3. Your Backstab has a 9% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.
  4. Your Backstab has a 12% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.
  5. Your Backstab has a 15% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth.

Thousand Cuts

newrow 7 · 1 rank

New in Forever.

ForeverWhen your Rupture ability deals periodic damage, the Energy cost of your next Hemorrhage or Backstab ability within 10 sec is reduced by 3, stacking up to 5 times.

Classic talents that are gone

These were in the Classic Rogue trees and aren't in Forever's. Some came back under a new name or got folded into a new talent above.

TalentWas inWhat it did in Classic
Improved BackstabCombatIncreases the critical strike chance of your Backstab ability by 30%.
Dagger SpecializationCombatIncreases your chance to get a critical strike with Daggers by 5%.
Fist Weapon SpecializationCombatIncreases your chance to get a critical strike with Fist Weapons by 5%.
Mace SpecializationCombatIncreases your skill with Maces by 5, and gives you a 6% chance to stun your target for 3 sec with a mace.
Sleight of HandSubtletyReduces the chance you are critically hit by melee and ranged attacks by 2% and increases the threat reduction of your Feint ability by 20%.
Improved SapSubtletyGives you a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.
DeadlinessSubtletyIncreases your Attack Power by 10%.

Where this comes from

Tree layout, ranks and the Classic comparison are read from two game clients: the Forever beta (build 1.60.1.70532) and Classic Era (build 1.15.9.70576). Forever's per-rank tooltip text comes from Talents Forever's data export (CC BY 4.0), which checks each rank in game. The files alone don't say whether a talent stores its per-rank or its full-rank value, so we use theirs.

It's still the beta. Numbers can move with any build.

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